By July 22, 2013 88 Comments Read More →

Why Are So Many Racists Comparing Zimmerman to Roderick Scott? (HINT: Because they don’t know any better)

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By Arthur Weinreb and Micah Naziri

Since the George Zimmerman verdict a little more than a week ago, many in “White America” have been struggling to come up with any explanation for why the acquittal in the killing of unarmed 17 year old Trayvon Martin was not racist.

Recently, many “Racists In Denial” seem to believe that they have found a parallel example of an African American version of George Zimmerman.

Roderick Scott, acquitted of killing 17-year-old white teen Christopher Cervini is the new internet sensation of any Caucasian who innately supports the Zimmerman verdict, but is somehow convinced that it is not for racial reasons. But just ow similar was this case to the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case? Photo: Greece New York Police mug shot?

Roderick Scott, an African American man, shot and killed Christopher Cervini, a 17-year-old white youth, in 2009.

Scott faced a charge of first-degree manslaughter, and claimed he shot the teen in self defense.

Scott was subsequently acquitted.

All this happened in New York State, which, even back then, had much tougher gun and self defense laws than the state of Florida has.

What are the legal similarities and differences between this case and the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case? As you will see, from start to finish, the cases are worlds apart.

Three Teens Breaking into Cars

During the early morning hours of April 4, 2009, 42-year-old Roderick Scott was asleep on the couch of his Greece, New York home, just outside of Rochester. He was awakened by some noise outside.

Scott looked out the window and saw three teens attempting to break into his car. He grabbed his gun, for which he had a legal permit, put it in his waistband and told his girlfriend to call 911 before going outside.

When Scott went out, he confronted the youths, who were going through a neighbor’s car. According to Scott, he told them to stop and wait for the police. The incident ended after Scott fired two shots at Christopher Cervini, killing him.

What Happened? Accounts Differ

According to 15-year-old James Cervini, one of the three, and Christopher’s cousin, Scott shot Christopher after the teen yelled, “Please don’t shoot me, I’m just a kid.” Scott, who testified in his own defense, said he only fired after Christopher came running at him in a threatening manner.

Scott’s attorney, James Parrinello, argued it was likely Christopher went at Scott to give James a chance to get away. James was already bound by two probation orders and the consequences of being charged with breaking into cars would have been more serious for him.

Scott, we must remember, was on his own property, defending his own property originally, from three individuals – not one – who were actively engaged in undisputed criminal behavior.

Scott Originally Charged with Murder

Unlike George Zimmerman, Scott was immediately arrested after the shooting and charged with murder. A grand jury later reduced the charge to first-degree manslaughter. The jury deliberated for about 19 hours before rendering a verdict of not guilty on December 18, 2009. If you have never heard about this story it is because Scott was arrested and had to essentially prove his innocence, just as we have come to expect from the corrupt so-called “Justice” system.

Manslaughter and Self Defense in New York State

Under section 125.20 of the New York Penal Law, first-degree manslaughter is defined as when a person intends to cause serious physical injury to another person and causes the death of that person or a third party. First-degree manslaughter also applies to cases that would otherwise constitute murder but the defendant, at the time the act was committed, suffered from extreme emotional disturbance.

It is clear that at the time Scott fired two shots into Cervini, he intended to cause serious physical injury to Cervini. He would have had to have been convicted of manslaughter unless the killing was justified.

Under New York law, deadly physical force is defined as the use of force that can reasonably be expected to cause death or serious physical injury. Under section 35.15 of the New York Penal Law, deadly physical force is justified if the person who uses it has a reasonable belief that the other person is using or is about to use deadly physical force against him or her.

In New York, the use of deadly physical force is not justified if the defendant is not in his or her dwelling and they have an opportunity to safely retreat from the situation. The New York Penal Law is similar to the law of Florida in terms of the onus of proof. A defendant need not prove a killing is justified and the jury must acquit unless they are satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the killing was not justified.

This killing, however, was proven to have been justified. The immediate and major differences were the preponderance of individuals involved, the nature of the undisputed criminal behavior of these outnumber individuals and the fact that this occurred at Scott’s home. He did not chase anyone down because of how they looked, or were dressed. Had their been two additional clones of Trayvon Martin fighting George Zimmerman, there would have been little ambiguity in the shooting of Trayvon Martin. But in no ways were these two cases similar, except in the fact that a young person was shot and killed.

SPREAD THE WORD! Racists are doing everything they can to convince others and themselves that their bigotry and hatred towards Trayvon Martin is anything but racism that they dare not even admit to themselves. They’re going to have to go back to square one and look for a new poster child for their cause of supporting Zimmerman’s vigilantism. They will not find it in the case of Roderick Scott.

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88 Comments on "Why Are So Many Racists Comparing Zimmerman to Roderick Scott? (HINT: Because they don’t know any better)"

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  1. Diva D says:

    Very interesting article. Well done on comparing the two situations. You are correct many “Racists Are In Denial”, they just need to open their eyes and admit that this thing was about race.

    • Paul says:

      The only racists are you guys. I love it how u don’t point out all the black on white violent crime..and this kid begged for his life. .. Zimmerman was getting beat up when firing shots. Case wasn’t a slam dunk

    • robert says:

      Some people are idiots, hahaha, a white person cannot do anything without being called a racist, if a black person walks in the grocery store and their out of meat, the first thing that’ll come out of a black persons mouth is,, thats the white mans way of keeping us down, lol, good god people, , the only reason whites might bring is to show that things actually happen both ways, EXCEPT, white on black its national news, black on white, you won’t hear about it unless you catch that 30 second clip on that towns local news. .. l

  2. Mike says:

    Rather than being evidence of ‘white racists trying to justify their position’, your argument is evidence of black hypocrisy and the leftist shills who do their best to appease it at it’s most extreme. Nice try, though.

  3. Nate P says:

    GZ probably should’ve gone about his business and you can argue that all day long. He was told by DISPATCHERS to stop following, NOT the police and therefore did not constitute as a legal order.

    Now, I will agree that he basically profiled TM and started following. I also think if it had been a white kid looking the same, this fool would’ve probably followed him too. The problem is the result if the following that occurred. What really, truly happened that night is known by 1 person and that’s it. What is known is that GZ was getting the crap beat out of him! His head was being beat in.

    At what point would it be acceptable for him to defend himself? Apparently TM was stronger and tougher than GZ and simply fighting back is not the answer. Nobody else was there to help. Why are all the TM supporters so quick to ignore the beating he was unleashing when he was actually shot? The supporters all make it sound as though he was followed and then just shot.

    Let’s now look back at the Scott case. Did he really need to go outside, couldn’t he have spooked them from the window or just let the police show up? He felt he needed his gun under the circumstances and still chose to confront the offenders. The guy is huge and was scared of the scrawny kid? Come on man, doubtful.

    Bottom line, both cases have a lot of what ifs and happier endings if the scenario had been handled differently. They were both wrong in the initial handling of the situation and rightfully acquitted at the end of the day.

    All you race baiters and enemies of freedom need to take a close look at yourself in the mirror.

    • MBD says:

      It is highly unlikely that the skinny Martin was “stronger” than Zimmerman. We know he wasn’t better trained, and we know that Zimmerman outweighed him significantly then and this was before Zimmerman got fat for the trial (to seem more helpless).

      At what point could he defend himself? Any time. But he cannot escalate force. THAT is the problem.

      • bhaggen says:

        Judging by his text messages about fighting, I’d put my money on Martin. Zimmerman is too soft and couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag. I agree with both verdicts. A thug is a thug

        • Diva D says:

          You act as if you know Zimmerman personally, do you? That seems to me the only way that you can conclude “Zimmerman is too soft and couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag”.

          If this is true then Zimmerman in your words “couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag”, seems to have a little bit of a mental problem, and there for shouldn’t have had a gun nor a permit to own one and carry one.

          And as far as your statement “A thug is a thug” which I can only conclude that you’re referring to Martin, then the statements on Zimmerman’s My Space page shows him as a racist. So A racist pig is a racist pig, and I am speaking of Zimmerman who need to go “Straight to Hell”, by the way you are free to go with him if you so desire.

          • bhaggen says:

            I do not know the woos, nor do I care to. He seems like the type of guy that can’t give a proper handshake. When I heard his soft voice in his TV interview I realized it could be him yelling for help. He started taking a self defense class, but as his instructor stated in court he was too soft and he never got to the punching. My 80yr old mother can’t fight either, but she’s dam proficient with that Glock in her purse. “A thug is a thug” referred to both Cervini & Martin.

    • Diva D says:

      What planet are you from? GZ out weighed Martin, and not by a few pounds. No matter what you say I can’t believe nor conceive Treyvon on top of this fool banging his head on the side walk. Now if you had a loaded weapon on you at the time of the confrontation why would you be crying out for help. Just realize it GZ was wrong and got away with murder. No matter what race the victim was, but we still know it was because of Trayvon’s race.

      • Diva D says:

        Zimmerman’s voice did not sound so soft to me, even the devil can make himself seem like a nice caring soul with a soft voice, but he’s still the devil.

        As far as your little statement “a thug is a thug”, as for that matter “white trash is white trash”, a racist is a racist, and an “idiot is an idiot”, which is what you seem to be.

        I will say this about you, you seem to be a person that will stand up for their beliefs and convictions to the end. For this I commend you.

        I am the same type of person I will stand up and continue to argue for my beliefs and causes that I truly believe in. For without disagreements the world wouldn’t be the same.

        I think that you and I could go on and on defending our sides of this thing, we probably would go to the end of times, but I can’t see us coming to and agreement about this. I think we are just two strong minded, hard headed people.

        Can you see us agreeing to just disagree? I don’t know.

        • bhaggen says:

          His voice is soft for a male, believe me. Probably a countertenor like Barry Manilow. It emanates from high in the throat unlike Barry White, a bass, who’s voice emanates from the chest. Didn’t make it all the way through puberty. I don’t stand firm on my beliefs. After all when this case 1st broke I believed GZ was guilty. Reminded me of the Jamiel Shaw incident, a 17yr old running back on his way to Stanford killed for wearing a red Spiderman backpack by
          a Mexican. Since the killer was an illegal the story didn’t meet the media’s narrative & wasn’t widely publicized. Oh, on the subject of stalking? Civil rights attorney Gloria Allred just filed a lawsuit against Kanya West for assaulting that photog. At a news conference she stated “just because someone is stalking or bothering you, does NOT give you the right to lay a hand on him” It’s obvious that you don’t know Jack! Or Jill for that matter. You are not a critical thinker. That’s a fact, not an opinion.

          • Diva D says:

            What in the hell are you talking about? I told you to go to a law library or your local library (reference department) and look up the law for yourself not quote some lawyer who is handling a civil rights case, of course she is going to twist the law to her needs or to defend her client, any decant lawyer would.

            As for not knowing Jack or Jill, I know them and a whole lot more.

            When I speak of justice for Treyvon, I’m speaking for all people who were killed for dumb reasons.

            As a matter of fact I think the 3 boys, 2 black and 1 white, that just killed this jogger just because they were bored deserves the death penalty regardless of race. So you see race is not always a factor in every case.

            Again I say to you research and check out the laws for yourself, get a clear understanding of them, then get back to me and argue your position.

            Regardless of the out come of Zimmerman’s case he still got away with murder, that is the end result. He is a racist murderer and he got away with.

        • bhaggen says:

          Florida Statute §784.048: Stalking is defined as when someone willfully, maliciously, & repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyber stalks another person.
          Florida Statute §776.012: A person is justified in using force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.
          So, like I said, you are wrong on both counts. GZ wasn’t stalking & one cannot use force against a stalker. Martin had 10min to walk 2 blocks, & didn’t. He could’ve called the police like GZ did but didn’t. If the 88yr old man, who was beat to death by 2 teens in Spokane, had been armed & killed his attackers he would have been guilty of murder according to you.

        • Brooke N. says:

          For someone with such general contempt for racists maybe you shouldn’t use racial slurs like white trash. It just takes away from the point you are trying to convey.

          • voice of reason says:

            So late to the party & nothing of any substanve to say so just make it more divisive. Thanks for the non contribution

        • robert says:

          You showed what kinda racist ass b—h you are with the white trash is white trash, you’re one hell of a person to be telling somebody what kinda racist they are, listen to that stupid ass shit you be talking about, hahaha, the one one thing you did get right is a idiot is a idiot, you fit in that catagory perfect

  4. m1 says:

    This is the latest hypocrisy from whites to justify there racism. If you notice they have to go back 4 yrs to equate falsely a case with zimmerman. A case that began an ended in 2009. 3 yrs before zimmerman killed Martin. Now I live in NY, where were these people in 2009 when this case took place. They were nowhere around because when it comes to self defense,a black person assering it after killing or wounding a white person doesn’t get much if any support .Now comes the fraudulent support for Roderick Scott. Now in 2009 in NY a white man named Charles Augusto used a illegal firearm to shoot 4 blacks that were attacking his employee,killed 2 wounded 2. Even though his firearm was illegal he was never arrested or charged with a crime.Augusto was given the self defense benefit from the beginning unlike Mr Scott or John White also of NY. Also Chris Cervini was in the process of COMMITING A CRIME,along with his buddies. Trayvon Martin WAS NOT COMMITING A CRIME. However racists equate Zimmerman’s false suspicion of black Trayvon with that of white Chris ACTUALLY COMMITING A CRIME.A black persons’ suspicion of wrongdoing is equal to that of a white persons’ actual guilt. Now the case to show how Stand Your Ground and self defense in Florida is applied differently is the Trevor Dooley case. Notice the same people are using Roderick Scott to show false solidarity,never supported Trevor Dooley. PBS keep up the good work.

    • robert says:

      Now listen to your dumb ass , haha, everybodys case is gonna be 3, 4 years old one day, , the real point is the shit happens, it don’t matter if it happened a couple of years ago, hell zimmermans trials getting older too, and the ignorant people are still talking about it

  5. Andrew D says:

    I agree that the two are nothing alike, beyond that the stance that people are racist because they believe the correct verdict was reached is just idiocy.

    Diva D – did you even listen too all of the testimonies, the 911 call, and the evidence? If not shh…you are talking from a stance of ignorance.

  6. Andrew D says:

    This was strictly about a series of bad decisions being made by two individuals that unfortunately led to one of them dying. Having said that if you can remove your emotions and look at the evidence, the eyewitness testimony, and just use common sense and logic there is no way, if you are truly being honest with yourself, absolutely no way you could have found GZ guilty.

    Do you know anything about GZ? Do you know he was well liked by the black community in his neighborhood? Do you know all of the things he did for low income black families? That dude is as far from a racist as you can be.

    • Diva D says:

      No I do not know Zimmerman nor Martin personally, do you?
      To say that Zimmerman was well liked by the black community is like saying I have a black friend so that means I’m not racist.

      If he was so well liked by the black Floridian community, and has done so much for the low income black families (by the way there are also low income white families), then why haven’t these people come forth to show support for him? I’m just asking.

  7. Diva D says:

    By the way DeFrancesco, since you seem to think that people seem to have judged Mr. Zimmerman with out knowing all of the facts, or those that dis agree with the verdict, need to go back to school, may I mention that I graduated top of my high school graduating class, and missed a perfect score on my SAT’s by 1 point, and I am maintaining a 4.0 right now. So now tell me your credentials to inform anyone that they need to go back to school.

  8. d nova says:

    good article, well-researched n well-reasoned. the cases are indeed different, not parallel to each other in any way. there’s no justification for drawing any conclusions whatever about trayvon martin or george zimmerman from the scott-cervini case.

    if u were as objective about zimmerman n martin, i’m sure u’d say the jury got it right.

  9. Common Cents says:

    Huh? Head beat in? Did you see the same pictures I saw? That only showed minor abrasions? Nose didn’t even look broken. Zimmerman picked the wrong fight perhaps, and then had to resort to his gun.

    • paul cuzz says:

      I agree that in hindsight the injuries weren’t that bad. I also think he exaggerated them. Problem with that argument is by law Zimmerman didn’t actually have to have any injuries he could have legally shot sooner than he did. It speaks towards his innocence that it took him so long to shoot, of course that might only be because he couldn’t reach his gun easily with Trayvon mounted on him.

      • Dennisdread_2000 says:

        Legally he could have minded his own business and not bothered Martin in the first place.

        • you asked says:

          You completely seem to ignore the fact that local gang members were known to wear dark hoodies & the gated community had had a rash of break-ins, many by young black men. I’m sure if you had the same thing happening in your neighborhood, you would be hypervigilant too.

          I live in a much smaller community than Sanford, FL. & we have had our fair share of thieves stealing our scrap metal, copper wire, from our business & even stripping parts & copper wire from homes & our oil leases. Just last week, we had someone drive into a new garage we had built for our work trucks. This new building is directly across the road from our home. We were still awake & all the lights in our home was on. (This is how bold the thieves are).

          We don’t have local police, only a county sheriff’s department & it would take them at least 20-30 minutes to get to our home. So, we do have our own guns, that we use for protection & hunting. We walked out on our front porch & asked them what they were doing. We received no response, so we told them they had to the count of 5, before we started shooting. We only counted to 3 before they drove out of OUR property & took off.

          A few years ago, we had a flood & had to leave our home & stayed the night with a family member. By 5 am the next am, we came back home, because we know how the local thieves operate. Lo & behold, I caught someone in another house we own, with the doors wide open & the trunk of their vehicle open. Luckily, I caught them before they had time to remove anything from the property. I took the time to write down their tag # & put a note in my vehicle that if anything happened to me, to look for the people who owned that vehicle. I walked up to the house, with my gun, which I have a legal CCP to have. After telling them to get the “H” out of my home, they finally came out (a man & woman) & told me that they were just “looking because they thought the house was for rent”. I told them “Do you see a for rent sign on it?” I told them to get out & never come back or next time I wouldn’t give them a warning. I notified the local SO & guess what – nothing was done.

          Sometimes owners need to take action themselves, because thieves will never change & we don’t always have the law on our side, when it comes to prosecuting thieves. They think they have a right to anything they want & never think of the cost they inflict on the owners of property by the damage they cause & loss of property. People need to realize if it doesn’t belong to them, leave it alone. If someone needs money, for whatever reason, get a job & earn it, like we have.

          I don’t like people using the excuse they are poor either. Both my husband & I grew up dirt poor & know exactly how hard life can be. But, after leaving the military, I went on to college & eventually nursing school. My husband quit his 11 pm-7 am job & started his own business & now owns 3 very successful businesses. We have worked hard for everything we have & if we can do it, anyone can. But, it takes a lot of hard work & initiative. We taught our son the same thing & he is now a geologist with his own successful business & his wife is a teacher. Our daughter in law also had parents who came from humble beginnings & taught their daughter the same values we instilled in our son. Our son did not rely on the Govt giving him anything in order to go to college. We paid for his tuition, books & apartment rental. However, we told him, that if he wanted money for his entertainment expenses, he would have to get a job in order to pay for that – which he did. Our son & daughter in law are grateful that they had parents who cared enough about them to teach them responsibility. They are now parents & are teaching their children the same lessons & values we instilled in them.

          It’s just too bad that all parents don’t teach their children that they can achieve their dreams, but they have to work for it, instead of thinking they have a right to what someone else has worked for, by stealing it, instead of valuing what they worked for themselves. We would have much less violence in the world, if we all lived by that motto. I guess it is much easier, for some, to blame someone else for their problems, instead of taking a long look in the mirror.

        • bhaggen says:

          Legally, Martin could’ve stayed home and watched the game with his brother. After all he was only a “child” and it was after dark.

        • paul cuzz says:

          And Martin could have gone on in the house and not assaulted GZ. Trayvon was the first person in the altercation who broke the law by becoming violent in the first place. GZ was doing what Neighborhood Watch people do all over the country every day, he didnt expect to get assaulted for it.

  10. doubleducks says:

    You demonstrate your own racism and bias in this article by twisting the facts. Here is what Roderick Scott testified to: He testified he saw three individuals who
    were in his driveway, saw them walk out and cross the street, then walk
    up to a neighbor’s vehicle, pulling on the latch and handles of the neighbor’s truck. He then went upstairs, told his girlfriend Tracy that
    someone was breaking into a vehicle, and told her to call 911. He
    grabbed his pistol, for which he has a permit, “to protect myself” then
    went outside.

    Scott said his intent was “to stop or detain the criminals,” not to shoot anyone. He walked down the driveway and over to 39 Baneberry Way. (not his property). He saw one person standing on a

    sidewalk, and some rummaging going on inside a vehicle, which had the dome light on.

    At that point, Scott testified he pulled his handgun out of the holster,
    and chambered a round. “I wanted to protect myself and I intended to,”
    Scott said.

    He walked toward the individual, who started to walk away toward Manitou
    Road. He did not tell that individual to stop. It’s believed that
    individual was Brian Hopkins.

    At this point, Scott was a foot or so off the sidewalk, and he saw someone rustling around inside the vehicle at 39 Baneberry.
    He testified he clearly saw two individuals. He drew his pistol and
    assumed the a shooter’s stance. “I didn’t know what I was up against, or
    if they were armed,” Scott said.

    Scott then fired two rounds into the chest of an unarmed seventeen year old.

    • Dennisdread_2000 says:

      Martin was committing no crime when Zimmerman started bothering him,. He was walking home and talking on the phone. I repeat, Martin was not in the commission of a crime. Somehow, you missed that. Evidence of bias?

      • TheKnowerseeker says:

        Criminal activity was suspected by the shooter either way.

      • you asked says:

        No crime was committed by Zimmerman, either before Trayvon attacked him? If it is a crime to just be walking behind someone else, then we’d all be guilty, wouldn’t we? Remember, the witness (Rachel Jenteal) even stated that Trayvon had made it back to his Dad’s girlfriends condo. Why did Trayvon go back & confront George Zimmerman? Somehow you missed that. Evidence of bias? Works both ways, you know!?

      • paul cuzz says:

        GZ never bothered Trayvon, he was watching him. He lost him in the dark and Trayvon could have gone on home but chose to return to confront GZ and escalated to violence.

    • you asked says:

      I’d like to make 1 correction. According to Prosecutors, Chris Cervini was shot in the back, by Roderick Scott.

      According to Rodrick Scott’s defense attorney, it was both a self-defense situation & a stand your ground case. But there is no stand your ground law in NY.

      There are also other differences in the Zimmerman case & Scott’s. Did Scott have any injuries, such as a broken nose, like Zimmerman? Was his head pounded into the ground, like Zimmerman’s? Nope! Nada – nothing. Not one injury at all. Scott was even well versed in martial arts. But he claimed he shot Chris Cervini as he rushed him, because he feared for his life. How do you shoot someone in the back, if they are rushing towards you?

      So, where was Holder’s DOJ? Why didn’t they investigate this case as they investigated Zimmerman’s? Why didn’t they demand the evidence – including Scott’s gun? Why didn’t Jesse Jackson refer to NY as an apartheid state, like he did FL? Where were the protests & riots after the verdict?

      So, where was the wide scale media attention? Where was Holder, Obama, Jackson & Sharpton with their outrage? Or does it only come out when a black person is shot?

  11. Dennisdread_2000 says:

    What we all know is that Zimmerman saw a person that he did not know, assumed the worst, pursued him to the point of confrontation, and shot him to death.

    Why that’s ok with you is beyond me.

    • bhaggen says:

      What we all should know is that GZ saw a person wandering around peering into homes, so he called the police & followed him. Tracy Martin’s girlfriend said he was “sitting on the porch”. Waiting on GZ but GZ didn’t show so Martin backtracked and confronted him. Did Martin call the police? Of course not, he wanted to take matters into his own hands. The blacks call it “street law”

      • Julian Alexander Cicone says:

        Um, actually that is not what happened at all. Tracy Martin’s girlfriend never said that Martin was sitting on the porch and then backtracked to confront GZ. What we know is that Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend on the phone heard Zimmerman confront Trayvon and then grabbed him by the shirt and shoved Trayvon to the ground.

        • bhaggen says:

          Uh, yea actually that is what happened. When this story first broke, before we even knew about Zimmerman, a local TV station, FOX ch35, talked to Tracy Martin & Brandy Green at the spot where the fight took place. She said, “He was bored so he walked to the store. He was on his way back home, we live right down there, he was sitting out on the porch”…..That may explain why it took him 50min to reach the altercation, a 15min walk. Do a U-tube search “Eyewitness Zimmerman Martin shooting Incident”

          • Julian Alexander Cicone says:

            That does’t matter though. Its irrelevant. You are trying to put more into it.

            The lawyers speaking for the family, have consistently maintained that Trayvon was on his way home at the time of the shooting. This is also the position of the prosecution’s Affidavit of Probable Cause.

            Sitting on a patio in the rain, even a covered patio, doesn’t seem likely to me. The wind would blow the rain in and the seating would get wet.

            How would Brandy and Tracy know that Trayvon was sitting on the patio? They said they were out, and Chad says he didn’t see Trayvon after he left for the 7-11.

            Brandy was speaking on the very day she learned of Trayvon’s death. Tracy lost his own son. To me it seems clear that their minds wandered in their grief, making context-free allusions to some earlier occasion. In one of the quotes, Tracy said that ‘We was sitting out on the back’, not Trayvon alone.

            You can’t use that as a quote to make Trayvon seem like he back tracked when the father and Brandy both said they never saw him that night because they were out and not at home during that time. They said that numerous times on numerous occasions and said that in court. That is more important than a woman whose crying and in an emotional state to say something that could be a blurry grammatical mistake.

        • paul cuzz says:

          Rachel said Trayvon told her he was next to the house. The altercation took place some 70-80 yards back up the path so its logical to assume that Trayvon turned around and went back up the path to confront GZ.

          • Julian Alexander Cicone says:

            No. Rachel never said that he was next to the house. You are confusing what the father said in an interview. But even then, people like you took what the father said out of context. It is proven that neither of the parents were home at that time when the shooting and attack happened. So when the father said that he saw Trayvon that was earlier. Trayvon left the house to go to the store and the parents were both gone already when Trayvon was on his way back.

            What Rachel did say is that she heard Trayvon yell “get off of me” and also Rachel said Trayvon said to Zimmerman “why are you following me?”

    • paul cuzz says:

      We also know Trayvon saw a person he didnt know watching him and instead of going in the house or calling the cops he went back up the path to confront the unknown person and assaulted him.

      • Julian Alexander Cicone says:

        No. There is no evidence that Trayvon went back home to his house. His parents saw him before he left to go to the gas station. And that is what they were talking about. It is proven that the parents weren’t home at that time when Trayvon was being attacked. Rachel never said Trayvon was at his house but again she did hear on the phone that Trayvon said “get off of me” and also asked Zimmerman, “why are you following me”.

        Zimmerman has a violent history. He could of easily tried to fight Trayvon and then Trayvon could of easily defended himself and kicked Zimmerman’s butt in the fight

        • paul cuzz says:

          Zimmerman had the 1 altercation with the cop some 6 years prior, not really much of a violent history. Why do you think he could have easily defended himself? Trayvon could have got that first shot in stunning GZ as GZ claims and once he was mounted rained down the blows, GZ took alot of shots, if he could have I am sure he wasnt taking that beating for the fun of it. Have you ever been in a fight and been mounted with someone throwing punches? Its not that easy to get someone off and if they know how to fight its even harder and if your stunned and panic sets in your not likely to get up until they let you.

          • Julian Alexander Cicone says:

            Um no, he had more than one altercation with the law prior and one was a restraining order against him from an ex girlfriend. Zimmerman also during the trial helped his ex wife commit perjury. He has had other criminal offenses since then. The dude has as many mugshots as Lindsey Lohan. According to Trayvon’s friend who was on the phone that night said Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and then grabbed Trayvon before hitting him to the floor. This story is old. Zimmerman is scum and his right wing fan base is worse

          • paul cuzz says:

            No, look it up, he had the single issue with the police and yes his Ex-GF put an RO on him but there was no crime, he also put one on her, so is she guilty of a crime too? All of that was over 6 years before, not really a pattern. Yes there was the issues of Perjury but that was over money and was on Shellie and isnt relevant. Zimmerman has no criminal record after that, not sure why you made that up. Also Rachel says Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, you really should check these things before you make yourself look any dumber. Since you believe Rachel then you should also believe her when she says Trayvon was at the back of the house.

  12. Dennisdread_2000 says:

    Zimmerman did willfully stalk Martin , he even called the police while he was doing it.

    Martin was talking on the phone and minding his own business. You’re the one who is wrong on both counts. Check yourself.

    • Forza Azzurri says:

      No, you’re wrong. Zimmerman was doing his job as community security guard. End of story. Get over it.

      • Dennisdread_2000 says:

        He had no job as community security job, and if he did, he sucked at that too.

        • Forza Azzurri says:

          Wrong again. Yes he did. It was stated many times in the immediate aftermath that he was one of the community watchman of neighborhood. You just made it clear that you’re not even sure if he was by your comment saying- “if he did”. You don’t know what you’re talking about & just looking at this with prejudice towards Zimmerman while disregarding the facts. And he wasn’t bad at that job, it was his responsibility to be on the lookout for anything suspicious. That’s exactly what he did.

        • nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

          Actually he did have that job. If he “sucked” at it he would be dead. Instead the racist thug is dead. Zimmerman rocks!

    • nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

      If this is true then Scott is also a stalker and a murderer and a racist!

    • bhaggen says:

      Dumbass willfully FOLLOWED Martin yes, but that in itself does not meet the legal criteria for “stalking” which is clearly defined by each State’s statutes, in this case Florida. All statutes are available for anyone to examine on the State’s website. Silly negros…..

  13. Dennisdread_2000 says:

    And right wing, white America celebrated like it was the 4th of July! Ugh!

    • Forza Azzurri says:

      No they didn’t. Not one bit. No one cheered or celebrated. This is the kind of nonsense that gets spread around and makes everyone look bad including you for making things up. If you believe this to be true then you’re seeing things through the prism of racism. Racist towards white people. Also, it was black people who said they were going to hunt Zimmerman down & several black groups who encouraged people to go into white neighborhoods and wreak havoc. Why are you still going on about this? Just absurd.

      • Dennisdread_2000 says:

        Are you kidding? There were cheers all around. You yourself probably cheered. To this day Zimmerman hasn’t been hunted down or had anything done to him, so what are you talking about? Nothing. Stop crying about that fat, drunk, woman beating loser. What are you his mother?

        • Forza Azzurri says:

          Nice class you have. All you can do is use prejudice & hurl insults. Good job. Anything you say is void because you don’t use any sort of reason or logic. You assume that I cheered when it happened yet you don’t even know me. And you can’t prove that anyone cheered. You can’t prove that anything you’ve posted is correct because it’s not & you’re just speaking through emotion. The kind of emotion that shows you’re racist towards whites.

    • nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

      Racist much?

    • nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

      The thing that “right wing, white America” doesn’t do is riot, loot and kill in retaliation for violence. That is what Left-Wing Black America does so well…and in their abject stupidity they do it to their own neighborhoods.

  14. Dennisdread_2000 says:

    Zimmerman is a thug. Gun toting, woman abusing, drunk and out of control. But you seem to love him. Why? Cause he killed a black youth?

    • Forza Azzurri says:

      You don’t know him yet you claim these things. Very sad. You’ve commented 7 times just this morning on this. Are you trying to set the record straight? You think you will convince everyone you’re right? You think you know all the facts & everyone else is wrong? Martin was the thug. Martin was in & out of trouble over the last 3 yrs. Martin was snooping through other people’s yards & peeking in windows. Martin was the aggressor & he created a situation where Zimmerman had to defend himself. End of story.

      • Dennisdread_2000 says:

        Zimmerman was and still is the thug. Martin was minding his own business. Zimmerman has been in and out of trouble his whole life. You blind? Stoopid? Or just obsessed with black people? All of the above?

        Tell us, how is a man who follows and confronts a teen while packing a gun the victim?

        You really this dumb? Really?

      • Dennisdread_2000 says:

        Shut up then.

    • Forza Azzurri says:

      I don’t need to tell you how. The court of law already did. INNOCENT! That’s how. Nice insults again. It’s all you can do. SO because of that you’re blocked. Then you delete your comment. You’re the one going on about this over a year later & commenting on every single post on here. Yo’re obsessed. You’re the racist & forming an opinion based only on race while ignoring the facts. Go to bed & stay there. The world doesn’t need anymore single-minded, one-sided racists like you. BLOCKED ! Bu bye lil guy

    • nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

      Black youth? Black thug you mean!

  15. Dennisdread_2000 says:

    It was. Except the fix was in.

  16. TheKnowerseeker says:

    All it took was reading the first two sentences of your drivel for me to see that your mind is filled with fallacies. Not even worth the time to refute them all.

  17. Dennisdread_2000 says:

    Zimmerman chased a kid who was walking home, through the neighborhood while carrying a gun. The kid ended up dead, shot to death. What a surprise. How willfully ignorant must one be to not figure out what happened there? If the kid were white I seriously doubt any of you would be this slow to figure it out.

  18. you asked says:

    You must have missed the videos of TM & his MMA fighting or the video where he beat up a man for his bike. Size isn’t always a factor, when it comes to fighting, but experience is.

    Actually, race probably did play a part, since it is a matter of record that the people who lived in the same gated community where Zimmerman lived, had been victims of robberies, committed by black men, who wore dark hoodies. If I saw a black man, wearing a dark hoodie, peering into windows, I would have followed him too, based on previous robberies that had occurred. Ever consider that? Of course, you didn’t.

  19. Kris says:

    Well, Zimmerman is not white so your whole theory is idiotic.

  20. paul cuzz says:

    A few did, your aware of the stink he caused with the police over the beating of the homeless black guy? He could have left that alone but didnt.

  21. nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

    Treyvon was a thug. He was violent and was a racist. Deny that and you are either a racist, a thug, retarded or any combination of the three.

  22. nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

    You “can’t” believe or you refuse to believe? And you know it was because of race? You must be very “special” indeed…and a Racist. So says this creepy-arsed cracker!

  23. nickaponzi@yahoo.com says:

    Comparing Zimmerman and Martin: which one used a racist slur?

  24. Diva D says:

    GZ made this thing about race from the start by his actions. If he had taken his butt to the store (as he claimed was the reason for him being out that night) maybe Trayvon would still be alive now.

    Because of GZ’s perception of seeing Trayvon a young black man with a hood over his head, was up to no good and that he was a thug, started the race issue. I believe if Treyvon was another race GZ would not have reacted as he did.

    That time wasn’t the first visit for Treyvon to that area, it has been stated that he had been there this time for about a week or more, if so don’t you think that GZ should have seen or known who the child was ( if he was the watch cap. as he claimed he was).

    Use common sense people, Treyvon didn’t stay in the house everyday all day long while visiting. I’m sure that GZ had seen this child before, he was just out for to kill and he did…….

  25. Brian DeFrancesco says:

    m1 and Diva D.

    What’s the definition of prejudice again? Oh, yeah. It’s deciding you know all about a situation or a person’s character on the basis of a few, scant observations. Your letters tell us you “know” and you’re “sure” about Zimmerman when really you’re speculating. And you’ve decided people are racist just because they agree with a verdict. Go back to school. Train yourself to approach issues with more reflection and a more open mind.

    We have plenty of knee-jerk, jumping-to-conclusions people in this country. We need more thoughtful people.

  26. Diva D says:

    Brian DeFrancesco: For your information I do not need to go back to school to have common sense. First of all I am a paralegal working towards my law degree, mainly criminal law and litigation. It’s not just a few scant observations that made others and myself come to this conclusion about GZ. If you’d taken a little time to do research on Gz’s background and his past arrest records and charges, just maybe you might have second thoughts about him.

    I am an open minded person. I can truly say that I would still feel the same way if Treyvon was a young White or Hispanic male or any other race for that matter and George Zimmerman was an African American man and made the same decisions that GZ made on that night. Either way the verdict was wrong and GZ got away with murder.

    A lot of things happen that are just outrageous: murder, rape, robbery, kidnaping as well as other things we all wish that we lived in a society where race was not a factor in judging people, but race is sometimes a determining factor in many cases.

    As far as understanding the law as it was written, clearly the jury did not understand the law and the responsibility that they had to show that our justice system works for everyone regardless of race.

    May I suggest that you visit a law library or your local library (reference department) and read about the SYG law and get a better understanding of it yourself. Then get back to me. Oh! don’t forget to re-freshen your mind on civil rights.

    Thank You.

  27. m1 says:

    Where in my post which you incorrectly call letters did I say I know Zimmerman? Where in my post did I say I’m sure about Zimmerman? Its incorrect to make false statements. As for those people being racist because they support a verdict. This is based on the support Zimmerman got from Florida police, da NRA etc as well as the verdict. Where was all of this for Roderick Scott in 2009? As someone who lives in NY, I can tell you it was non existent. You should deal with the false equivalency of Scott /Zimmerman. 2nd amendment supporters love to talk about how theyre for self defense. Yet it’s the exact opposite when its a black person who asserts self defense against a white person. Nobody gave a dime to Roderick Scott online. No hannity interview for Scott. No Ohio group offered Scott 12k to buy guns after his acquittal. You should ask for a just and even standard.

  28. Diva D says:

    Hello!! come back to Earth. I am not saying that he did not have the right to defend himself, but it has not been proven nor shown that Martin clearly physically attacked GZ.

    I don’t know if you saw the same photos of Zimmerman’s so called injuries (by the way these photo’s were not taking on the same night that the shooting was) the did not coincide with his statements of being attacked by Martin.
    The photos showed only a few scratches,and some bruising that he could have received by someone trying to defend themselves, somewhere else or by someone else, but not by having someone on top of him beating his head on concrete. Now I must admit that as of now I have not seen any photos of stitches or big open wounds or lots of blood streaming from Zimmermans head.

    But if Martin physically attacked Zimmerman, then he was STANDING HIS GROUND AND DEFENDING himself from a stalker(GZ). Martin did not deserve to be killed by a stalker with a loaded gun, who doesn’t appear to be mentally all there.

    My final statement is that again Zimmerman got away with MURDER.

  29. bhaggen says:

    I just checked my GPS; I seem to be on the third planet from the Sun. You’re either on Venus or you weren’t paying attention during the Zimmerman trial. A Mr Good saw the person with the dark sweatshirt on top of the person in the red jacket inflicting “ground & pound MMA style” punches to the face. Ballistics confirmed their positions at the moment of the shooting. Mr Good is the same person that called 911 & reported the fight. The 911 records showed the time of his call coincided with the overall timeframe. The first frontal shot of GZ’s face showed a swollen nose bleeding into his mouth AND was taken just BEFORE the police arrived by a Filipino resident. The second frontal shot (same wounds) was taken in the back seat of the squad car BEFORE they took GZ back to the station. The shot of the back of his head was taken at the station the same night. Any photos taken after that are irrelevant to the case. Following someone is not stalking (obsessive attention) and no you cannot legally attack someone to defend yourself against such. My Ex stalked me & the police told me “whatever you do,do not touch her or you will be arrested for assault!” I reserved judgment until after the trial. Get better acquainted with the law & this case before YOU make judgment.

  30. Diva D says:

    Excuse me! I am here on earth I thought that maybe you were from Mars. Just who in the hell is this Mr. Good, maybe I missed it, why hasn’t he shown is face or made a public appearance, since he is suppose to be the only witness to see the actual fight and the only one to call 911.

    The Ballistics was a joke and the nut heads that presented the case did not do a very good job of it. This is one of the reasons that Zimmerman got away with murder.

    Yes slowly following someone in you car ( while the person is walking away from you and you are behind them), and then getting out of your car too confront them is stalking. If Martin was on top of him beating Zimmerman’s ass then he was (Martin)only defending himself.

    Now I can understand the SYG law, and why in some cases it is needed, but it needs to be revised to include in detail what actually constitutes standing your ground, or that you can only use as much force to defend yourself as the force being used against you, in other words if they are going fist to fist with you and you use a gun or any other weapon then you are no longer standing your ground you are assaulting with intent. And the Law should apply to anyone who feels that they have stood their ground, no matter what race you are. Not just to idiots, raciest, dumb asses and fools lie Zimmerman.

    May I suggest to you that You get better acquainted with the Law period, before you try to defend anyone.

    It seems to me that you are a supporter of Zimmerman (I maybe wrong), or you could be just a supporter of the SYG law, and think that this law, in this case worked, I don’t know. But if you are indeed just a supporter of Zimmerman, does that mean you are a “RACIST PIG” like he is? I’m just making an observation, let me know something.

  31. bhaggen says:

    Who in the hell is this Mr. Good? Maybe you missed it? You obviously missed all or most of the trial and along with it the evidence presented by both sides. Mr Good is a resident and testified he heard the “scuffle”(his word) opened his door and saw the fight but went back inside to call 911. As a witness, he’s required to recount the facts of the case to the court NOT the media or the public. The judge could have put a “gag order” on the case, in which case NOONE would be permitted to talk about it. I once visited the ballistics lab at FBI in Quantico and believe me, it’s no joke. They have a copy of every firearm ever made and can, through tests, determine if the bullet found in a victim came from a Beretta, Glock, or S/W. Place is awesome! Sorry, you can’t physically assault a stalker; however you CAN report them to the police. Just recently Kanye West assaulted a photographer HE accused of stalking. Assault charges were filed. The SYG law was NOT applied to this case; simple self defense was applied. I love your “revised” law….let’s see, a guy grabs you & rapes you in an alley, & all you’re allowed to do is what? If you weren’t so ignorant, you might even be funny. All your statements have been false. It seems I’m far more informed on the law & the Zimmerman case. I watched hours of testimony on TV & on line every night. This was not a sports event so I didn’t support Martin or Zimmerman. I paid close attention to the evidence! You obviously did not! If Martin hadn’t used racial slurs or flipped the switch on Zimmerman and attacked, I would be voting guilty! Larry Elder, Rev Manning, Charles Barkley, Alfonso Rachael, all support Zimmerman. Are they racist pigs even though they’re African American? In black/white crime, 82% of the time the perp is black & the victim is white. That’s from Holder’s USDOJ!

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